Here is a recent article and the discussion I contributed. I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts (insightful and intelligent discussion please):
James Bianco ·
The military offers themselves in defense of their country as patriots and they are well compensated for it. My family is composed of nothing but veterans and anyone who serves this country expecting laud, or special treatment or for any reason other than a humble desire to protect freedom is not a patriot, just a mercenary who doesn’t deserve to wear the uniform. Sailors who quibble because they couldn’t get into a club and then demand additional freebies because of it are no different than the mafia offering protection for a price. True patriots fight because America and her freedoms are worth fighting for, not for glory and gold. Thank you for those who don’t need fleet week, only their conviction. To the rest, please learn real service or get out. I doubt General Washington, General Lee, General Grant or even General Eisenhower cared about fleet week or any bar turning them down.
An aside, Dress Blues are only appropriate in certain situations, this being one of them, and currently the formal tuxedo and ball gown are the highest form of dress according to civilian etiquette viz Emily Post. The bouncer was in the wrong but the sailor’s cousin was even more so. Dishonoring the uniform with a petty squabble trumps a guy doing his job who was simply misinformed.
As to the navy officer suing, under what area would she sue? She was not discriminated against, it was a universal dress code. Hurt feelings don’t fall under tort. And there is no precedence or statute entitling the military to get into any civilian establishment without permission, there’s even an amendment prohibiting quartering. It was just a misunderstanding that if the bouncer were fired or suspended for HE could sue for wrongful termination. Get over it, the hotel has already done more than it should have. An apology would have sufficed. Serve to protect, expecting praise is serving only yourself. To those who truly serve out of dedication, I am eternally grateful. I will not thank extortionates or their apparently abundant supporters.
Feel free to call me the names I anticipate, though I would rather hear well thought arguments if you disagree. After all, intelligent discourse is the only way I can evaluate and correct my ideas as necessary.
Biff S.-
The sailor probably had to wear the uniform for fleet week – it’s a big PR thing for the Navy – believe me, most don’t like having to wear their uniforms in public outside of duty as the uniforms get dirty easily, especially the whites and they aren’t that easy to properly maintain -I don’t think they wanted freebies, they just wanted to go where any other civilian could go – I don’t think most military members except special treatment, they just want equal treatment, they don’t want to be penalized by the Country they serve for wearing the uniform – there are those who only signed up for the education benefits, etc, but usually those people drop out when they find out they have to be deployed to a war zone – you don’t know how many people popped positive on drug tests once a deployment was announced – As far as true patriots of the past – if we had lived during those times, it would be different – Grant was called a butcher of his own men and was accused of being a drunk, a subaltern, and worse – Lee owned Slaves as did Washington -in fact he used teeth from his slaves to construct his dentures (he tried ivory, and many other things) – Eisenhower had a mistress during the war and was never a combat soldier, he was always a desk jockey – but time makes heroes, saints and patriots of many. But you do make a point about true patriotism vs self interest. As a retired military member myself, sometimes I fall into the trap of being bitter about the chronic unemployment and homelessness of vets while at the same time, many of the same people who deny entry to a military person in uniform or refuse to hire veterans will still self righteously say “thank you for your service” That is the kind of thing I am against – but well meaning people that say it is fine – I should have made that more clear.
Reply · Unlike · 1 · 19 hours ago
Jake W. High School Student
jimmie – AND how Well do you think that our military members are Compensated?
Research the Top Pay for a Top Admiral or General.
James Bianco ·
Biff S. Excellent points and this incident probably did not initially involve self-interest, but due to its escalation and the posting of this article it shows a demand for more than what was due and will inspire less scrupulous members of the forces to take advantage of a uniform that should symbolize patriotism but will become a tool of capitalism at its worst. You are correct about both the arrogant self-righteousness of those who can’t appreciate sacrifice and duty but claim to know what service was really provided as well as the horrible way we treat our vets. That change must come from the people but too few of them know or care (when I research an article it can take me days to find sufficient info on vets and previous engagements that were not popular, just to write and try to raise awareness and educate on how many people are living in squalor and who gave decades of their life in service), and even less active duty know or care because they are young and are not thinking of the future. I think we are on the same page for the most part, though I know this story will only serve to divide and no real conversation will come of it. Though many things have changed over the centuries, one truth remains- avarice will reign until real conversation and real action happens. I pray it doesn’t happen to my parents, but my father was a Senior Master Sergeant in the Air Force and he was an Aircraft Mechanic-it is still difficult to find a job. You’d think 30yrs of service would mean something at least in education and experience. Again, change has to come from the citizenry. My concern is that this one escalation will divide people even more and self-interest will override patriotism. Thank you for your points, it’s nice to hear a good argument that is well-thought out and not just some bigot assuming I hate America!
James Bianco ·
Just a reminder to everyone, Memorial Day does NOT remember active duty, it only commemorates those who died while in service. Please quit using Memorial Day as a reason for any action, good or bad, at, from, towards, or near those who are still alive and currently serving. We honor them to honor them, not because it’s Memorial Day.
Andy P. University of Florida Professor
James, that is by far the best first paragraph I have ever read in any comment section.
The “humble desire to protect freedom” is honor enough in itself. Thank you.
I am sooo tired of the fake patriotism (thank you for your service) tossed like cheap confetti at airports.
If you’re so thankful, go volunteer at the local VA or homeless shelter.
James Bianco ·
Jake W. I have, and when one adds in exchange discounts, value of Tricare compared to market insurance, access to facilities and the cost of similar access for a private citizen, value of retirement, quality of actual healthcare available versus quality of average citizen healthcare, educational opportunities, death benefits to families, availability of base housing, training, etc. you can come up with a real compensation value (compensation is the value of average pay plus the value of any and all benefits both actual and in-kind). Compared to a police officer or national guard member (the DOL’s comparative occupations) the compensation of most NCOs is far above. Take in to consideration the current average compensation of the citizens the military is designed to protect and even a private looks comparatively wealthy. That is not to say they are but at least a private can live on their salary, someone who works even overtime on minimum wage can not. Ultimately it boils down to members of the military volunteer to serve to protect freedom, the compensation should reflect the danger they are put in relative to the degree of danger (and based on need) others experience (physical, psychological, and social). It should also reflect the public’s perception of their value. FYI pay for any member of the military will vary by allowances, special skills, hardship, combat pay, and any number of other factors. The only “military” (he’s a civilian) pay that is set is the Commander-in-Chief who receives roughly $569,000 directly from the tax coffers, he is not the highest paid, as you requested.
So the short answer is, given all known factors, the average pay and benefits of the military is a reflection of the public’s value, can sustain a family during service, provides more than comparable occupations, and is more than the public’s value on itself. Active duty is well compensated for the task of being a patriot, poorly for a mercenary, and the question misses the point of the entire conversation. The sarcasm was nicely done though.
James Bianco ·
Spot on Andy, personally I like Habitat for Humanity as my volunteering of choice. We see a lot of young vets struggling to make it but with that military grit to never say die. I am always impressed with how they keep their heads up despite circumstances that would crush the rest of us.
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The Valeyard 